Comments on: Sunday Salon for 25 November 2007

By: Myrthe

Myrthe — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:26:24 +0000

I am living in Armenia permanently. At least, I don’t have plans to move somewhere else and I can see myself living here at least for the next couple of years. For ever is something completely different, though.

I think one of the reasons for me to claim my identity is that I need privacy and I need to be alone and that goes somewhat against the character of Armenians who are incredibly social.
On the one hand privacy is not really a problem as I live on my own, but on the other hand I have friends who want to claim me more than I want to give to them. This is something Armenian, this social thing and I can only deal with that to a certain extent. That is probably the single most important boundary I have set in claiming my own identity.

That and my consciously not conforming to the role women are expected to play in society in Armenia (but in this respect I noticed that I am sort of a role model for young Armenian women who try to find their way in a patriarchal society - but this is a completely different story).

By: Cottontimer

Cottontimer — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:40:59 +0000

Myrthe, Are you in Armenia temporarily or permanently? It just occurred to me that maybe I find it easier to go with the flow in whatever country I happen to be living in at the time (over the past 10 years, I’ve lived in Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, and now the UK) because I know I won’t be there forever. It’s all temporary. But maybe if I were somewhere for the long haul, I’d feel more strongly about claiming my identity.

By: Myrthe

Myrthe — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:52:15 +0000

Thank you for putting up the link to the post.

I live in Armenia, a country neighboring Iran, and apart form the Islamic aspects (Armenian is Christian), Armenian culture reminds me a lot of the Middle East, the importance of families and to a certain extent clans, patriarchal society where women are either saints or whores and outward appearance and the opinion of “the other” (neighbors, family, the in-laws, society in general) rule. I am generalizing somewhat, but not even that much.

I grew up in Holland, am independent and rather liberal in my views. But like you, I also don’t need to show all that 24/7 in Armenia. Mostly I have found a way of dealing with the local culture and accepting it without compromising who I am and my personal values.

One thing I am very glad about and that makes things a lot easier for me, is that I don’t have the pressure of family or in-laws in Armenia. Because I am on my own and because I am a foreigner anyway, I have a lot more freedom than Armenian women would have, so I don’t really feel that inhibited by local customs, traditions and expectations.

I think my own experience made me appreciate Digging to America even more than I would otherwise have.

By: Cottontimer

Cottontimer — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:00:59 +0000

Hi Myrthe, Thanks for the comment. I found your post about Digging to America! And lol @ Bitsy = Bitchy

By: Myrthe

Myrthe — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:53:09 +0000

I read Digging to America a couple of months ago (there’s a review up on my blog - too lazy to put in the link). I loved reading your thoughts on the book. They make me go back to the book.

I know Dewey is reading the same book now and I’m looking forward to her views as well.

I want to write a more thoughtful comment, but I am a bit in a hurry and it’s been a long day. Might come back later to add something more meaningful. I am also not living in my native country, and thus also dealing with questions of assimilation.

By: Cottontimer

Cottontimer — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:44:03 +0000

I just read in The New York Times that Tyler’s husband was an Iranian-born psychiatrist. That explains her insights into Iranian culture.

By: Cottontimer

Cottontimer — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:39:36 +0000

Ann, I was amazed at Tyler’s insights (although I’m sure some will argue that she exaggerated this or inaccurately depicted that). Will have to do some digging around to see how she did the research for this book.

By: Cottontimer

Cottontimer — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:33:46 +0000

I’ve been in the UK for almost a year and haven’t felt too much pressure to assimilate. I actually think it goes the opposite way where everyone is so darn culturally sensitive than common courtesies are brushed aside. For example, I’ve seen playground arguments arise b/c one person doesn’t respect another’s personal space. Sure, it’s a cultural difference but I would tend toward being more conservative in my behavior. Frankly, I’m tired of being culturally sensitive to people who don’t give a darn about my culture. That’s why it’s easier for me to adopt local culture than to kowtow to every other culture that happens to exist in our community. There is respect and there’s total chaos when we have to be sensitive to every little tiny thing!

Oops. Kind of started on a rant there….

By: Ann Darnton

Ann Darnton — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:29:06 +0000

I loved this book when I read it about a year ago. Tyler has the ability to explore such remarkable deep and important issues in a way that means you never once feel you’re being preached at. It’s coming up on my f2f group list shortly and I’m really looking forward to going back to it. I also was very moved by ‘Reading Lolita’ so I’ll be looking forward to reading your thoughts on that as well.

By: frumiousb

frumiousb — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:52:15 +0000

Hi Clare,

I suppose that it does depend. But I guess I mean more the dominant myth of the culture. Amsterdam has a history of immigration, but the majority culture sets itself apart very clearly from the immigrant culture. It’s even deeply embedded in the language. is the uk different